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Pressure is once again building on the federal government to address gambling harm,  more than two years after a landmark parliamentary report — also known as the "Murphy Report" — recommended sweeping reforms to tackle online gambling.

Last night, the ABC's Four Corners program revealed allegations of conflicts of interest and pro-industry bias at the de facto national regulator for online wagering.  

So, is there any hope of changing the industry which costs Australians billions of dollars each year? 

• Guests: 
  
  Kate Chaney, independent MP for Curtin 

  Edward, advocate for the Alliance for Gambling Reform

Interviewer: 
Well, pressure is building once again on the Federal Government to address gambling harm more than two years after a landmark parliamentary report known as the Murphy Report recommended sweeping reforms to tackle online gambling. Last night the ABC’s Four Corners program revealed allegations of conflicts of interest and pro-industry bias at the de facto national regulator for online wagering.

So is there any hope of changing the industry which costs Australians billions of dollars each year? Joining me now in the Parliament House studio is Kate Chaney, Independent MP for Curtin. Kate Chaney was also a part of that parliamentary inquiry into online gambling led by the late Labor MP Peter Murphy.

Kate Chaney, welcome back to Breakfast.

Kate Chaney:
Thanks very much, Sally.

Interviewer:
Last night there were some shocking accounts on Four Corners about people's money being stolen and being used for gambling. In your view, should betting agencies be allowed to keep the proceeds of crime?

Kate Chaney:
Well, I don't think they should. And I think most Australians would agree that if you know where the money is going, we should get it back. And it's just one of the many examples of how this industry somehow seems to have avoided proper regulation in Australia.

Interviewer:
Do you believe that the Northern Territory Racing and Wagering Commission, which licenses more than 40 online bookmakers, many of them hubbed in the Northern Territory, is a fit body to oversee some of these operators?

Kate Chaney:
Absolutely not. And that's why one of the main recommendations in the committee report was that we need a national regulator. We have this lowest common denominator approach. And quite frankly, the Northern Territory Regulator is a cowboy. It's six part-time commissioners, six out of the ten last commissioners have owned a racehorse and they're just massively conflicted. They're really slow, it takes ages to get anything addressed, and when they do actually impose fines, they're way too small to act as a deterrent.

Interviewer:
We know that two years ago with the Murphy report, there was agreement not only bipartisan, but amongst other members of the committee and independents and parties as well. Does that still hold in your view?

Kate Chaney:
Well, I think it does. And that was a really great committee. We had people from across the political spectrum getting together to try and address this problem. And we had a unanimous report with 31 really good, strong recommendations that I think still stand up now. The challenge is once that goes back to the party rooms, the money and the power get in the way. And the government really needs to decide, does it act for Australian people or does it act for a handful of companies that are making a lot of money out of this social harm? I think you’d find backbenchers in both parties, if they're being honest about it, would say their communities would like to see this sort of reform.

Interviewer:
We know that the Federal Minister and also the Prime Minister both declined to be interviewed on Four Corners. Why do you believe the government is yet to take action on these 31 recommendations for gambling reform?

Kate Chaney:
I'm really devastated that it's 832 days since that report was submitted and the government has done nothing. And it comes down to money and power. And this is where the government really needs to have some guts and not try to keep all stakeholders, including the gambling companies that profit from harm, happy, but do what the community wants. I think the government receives—both major parties receive—political donations from gambling companies, and they're scared of the broadcast media that makes so much money from gambling ads.

Interviewer:
Given the government’s mandate, what power does the crossbench have to push for reform when it comes to gambling?

Kate Chaney:
Well, it's 832 days since that report was put forward and I will keep reminding the government of that number and reminding the government of their inaction. I think that's what the crossbench is doing. There's been a long history of the crossbench speaking on this issue when the major parties won't, and we will just keep reminding the government that this is what the Australian people want and deserve—that they have to stop listening to these predatory companies preying on vulnerable Australians and prioritising their profits above the interests of ordinary Australians.

Interviewer:
How do you reflect on the fact that the federal government is taking political risks in introducing the social media ban for under-16s and has taken that to the world stage, but it’s been reluctant to act on online gambling?

Kate Chaney:
I just don't understand it. There are many very difficult issues that the government is facing. I don't think this is one of them. This, to me, is pretty simple. We treated tobacco as a public health issue a generation ago and banned tobacco ads. We can do the same with online gambling. We know that it preys on vulnerable people, and there's a pretty simple answer here. It can be phased out so that the TV stations can adjust, but it only represents six percent of the ad revenue that goes to TV stations—it’s not existential. The amount of money the TV stations stand to lose is about the same as the amount Australians lose gambling in two days. Every two days people lose the same amount of money that the TV stations will lose. So this is a problem we can deal with, and the government just needs to have some guts on this.

Interviewer:
Should the issue of gambling ads sit in the portfolio of the Health Minister rather than the Communications Minister? This is something that the Reverend Tim Costello has been pushing for.

Kate Chaney:
Well, we heard 45 hours of evidence and one of the strong themes that came through is that gambling needs to be treated as a public health issue. And so it would make sense for it to sit there. I think there is a problem with it sitting in the Communications portfolio that's alongside the sport portfolio. There's a conflict there, and we really need to recognise that gambling addiction is a health issue. There are vulnerable people and they're being bombarded by promotions for the product that is harming them.

Interviewer:
Kate Chaney, thanks for coming in this morning.

Kate Chaney:
Thanks very much, Sally.

Interviewer:
You're going to hear from someone now who knows firsthand the harms of gambling. Edward started betting when he was just eight. As a financial advisor, the addiction drove him into stealing almost $1.8 million in client savings, which landed him in prison. Since his release, he's worked with the Alliance for Gambling Reform to advocate for change and joins me now.

Edward, welcome to Radio National Breakfast.

Edward:
Good morning, Sally. Thanks for having me.

Interviewer:
Do you remember what attracted you to gambling as a kid?

Edward:
Yeah, I mean, it was sort of embedded within my family in terms of the sport of horse racing. I was exposed to it at quite a young age—not directly to gambling—but I guess to the sport, and I quickly found my way into the monetary side of it, the gambling, in quite a small way at an early age. And it just did something to me when I placed that bet; it just gave me what I needed.

Interviewer:
How easy was it to funnel other people's money in your role as a financial advisor into gambling, Edward?

Edward:
It was not an issue at all to do it. I was never once questioned by any betting agency that I had an account with about the source of my funds. In fact, probably the opposite—I was encouraged by inducements, encouraged by the VIP treatment they provide and what they want to get out of you over quite a long period of time. It started in a smaller way, but my stealing, if you like, went over a very short period of time, whereas my gambling has been for the best part of my adult life.

Interviewer:
What sort of inducements were offered or provided to you from these betting operators, not only to say thank you but to get you to bet even more?

Edward:
It's the VIP treatment—flights, tickets to sporting events, restaurants. I feel like anything I would have asked for, I probably would have got at one stage. My turnover with certain industry participants was pretty high, and that probably meant I was flashing up as a red light on their system as someone they should look after pretty well.

Interviewer:
You got involved in gambling from a very young age, as you were saying. What was it like later on when you didn’t have to go to the racetrack or the TAB—that your phone in your hand or pocket meant your addiction was right there with you all the time?

Edward:
Yeah, I’ve said this all along and most recently within sectors of people that I work with and where I try to maintain my own recovery. I think if someone's drunk through alcohol or affected by drugs, it's quite visible. Whereas I could be walking down the street having lost a house on a betting app and no one would know. That's the real danger Australians face—it’s so prevalent in our society. For me personally, I could lose hundreds of thousands of dollars in a very short space of time on an app, on a phone, and there's no real currency to it. That’s the really scary part.

Interviewer:
What was it like for you when people close to you found out about the extent of your offending?

Edward:
It was really damaging. It was a very damaging part of my life. It took a long time to put parts of my family back together, and some of those parts probably won’t be fully restored. But I’ve done my best to repair those relationships. It brought a lot of shame to people who love me and care for me—and a lot of shame on myself. I don’t sit and blame the gambling companies, but I do think there’s a level of responsibility that comes from their part that’s required. Anything that can be done to stop cases like mine reaching the point they do would be very useful.

Interviewer:
What do you think about the fact that more than two years after the inquiry and report by the late MP Peter Murphy, the recommendations have yet to be implemented?

Edward:
I think it’s shocking, honestly. Off the back of watching Four Corners last night, I was staggered by some of the interviews and just the lack of direction that this government has taken. I think it speaks volumes to what’s really behind it. I don’t think that’s a good look for anyone involved. Most importantly, for the people really struggling with gambling, this isn’t going anywhere. The sooner we do something, the better. Listening to the CEO of Gamble Responsibly being unable to answer any questions—I found that staggering, and not making links to harm that are quite clearly blatant links.

Interviewer:
Edward, thank you very much for joining me this morning.

Edward:
No problem. Thanks, Sally.

Interviewer:
Edward has had his own experience of gambling addiction and was in prison for fraud for gambling some of his clients' money as a financial advisor. He’s now an advocate for the Alliance for Gambling Reform. Radio National Breakfast approached the Communications Minister, Annika Wells, for interview today. She was unavailable.

If you or anyone you know needs help, you can contact Lifeline on 13 11 14, or the Gambling Helpline on 1800 858 858.